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Comms Business Live S4Ep3

Comms Business Live S4Ep3

DAVID DUNGAY [00:00:34] Welcome to Comms Business Live. My name’s David Dungay. And today, we’re talking about the retail market. I have two experts in their field with me today. Two Dans. So let’s go with Dan Cunliffe and Daniel Scott. Guys, tell us a little bit about yourselves and what you do. Daniel, let’s start with you.

DANIEL SCOTT [00:00:51] Daniel Scott, I’m one of the founding directors of Virocom Limited. We’ve been in business now for 15 years. Historically, we were communications company, an aggregator of services. About eight or nine years ago, we started developing our own software for us to integrate. We have different service providers to deliver a better service to our customers. Gives us the ability to offer solutions in a controlled manner by Akai integrations a form of integration we’re dealing with them so we can offer and we can promise on our technology that we actually supply it to our customers.

DAVID DUNGAY [00:01:27] Thank you. And Dan.

DAN CUNLIFFE [00:01:29] So I’m Dan kind of co-founder and managing director of Pangea. We are a IoT ecosystem provider. Looking at four key areas where we look at connectivity devices and analytics, we need these three things to kind of make a internet of things solution. And we take that out through the channel both in the UK and globally. And we been going for just on four years now. And I guess the part that we’re looking at is how does the Internet of Things actually create opportunities for our channel partners? That’s what we drive for.

DAVID DUNGAY [00:02:04] Okay. Well, to the audience, if you have any questions for my illustrious panel today, please make sure you tweet them using the hashtag CB Live 19 that’s CB Live 19. Right. Onwards and upwards. Let’s let’s crack on the retail market today. We’ve been hearing lots of doom and gloom stories about the brick and mortar stores. But what is your assessment of the situation today, Daniel?

DANIEL SCOTT [00:02:28] For me and understanding what some of our peers have been speaking to and speaking to customers, I think the retail market is going through a transition. Historically, retailers used to take great big footprints in shopping centres outside of towns and then now realizing as the online environment is consistently growing, that these big shopping centres have to change. They need to adapt to the future. And you’re finding that many of the online retailers are pushing. You can buy anything online. Doesn’t matter what product is where if you went to a store, those products are perhaps not so easily, accessible. So they’re having to change shopping centres, having to change shopping centres, have to embrace different forms of technology, different forms of bringing people into their shopping centres to offer different forms of entertainment ice rinks. I’ve been I’ve started seeing these shopping centres now, cinemas in shopping centres, all different things to increase that experience to customers when I come to consume their products.

DAVID DUNGAY [00:03:32] Dan what do you say?

DAN CUNLIFFE [00:03:32] I think there’s a lot of correct things in terms of the transition, in terms of how, you know, retail has to understand. I think you almost got to concern and think about when you’re online, as Daniel said, you can buy anything. Right. But the challenge is it’s usually where do you go and get it from? You go online. You like, oh, well, you just keep price checking, which becomes a bit of a problem. And then what happens after that is what’s that experience like when you actually get the product? Whereas if you’re in the kind of bricks and mortar retail environment can see that you can touch it. And that’s that’s kind of like what is the best for what I actually had done in my thoughts about sort of the hybrid retail moment, which is whether it be an ice rink or whether it be a Costa coffee that’s now come into something like Next for example, you know, how do you bring together more than one retailer to curate a nice experience for me to want to go in there? Because if I walk into I may not want to walk into Next, but I may want to go get coffee. But then I buy something from Next because I like it. And I think that’s going to start to really drive some interesting ways. So I don’t think it’s doom and gloom, but I think there’s a lot of change. Loads of change, actually.

DAVID DUNGAY [00:04:31] Sure. So we spent a lot of 2018 talking about customer experience, bringing people in for different reason ice rinks, Costa coffee, cinemas and whatever it is. I mean, how should retailers look to add value else elsewhere around that?

DANIEL SCOTT [00:04:47] That’s a tough question. So I think what you are seeing with a lot retailers is they are looking to bring concessions into the store. So you’re starting to see retailers with pop up stores. We’ve been inside that store, a store within a store. I think a good example was Costa Costa coffee within Next. But if you think of your typical main brand grocers, as you walk into a grocers now or find a typical retailer, you have a concession street, you would go in and typically there would be a dry cleaners or shoe fitters, maybe a foreign exchange sort of place there would be click and collect strategy. You know, all of these different forms of strategies or what they’re there for is to add value to the customers to bring them into store. Now once they get them into store, they realize by increasing that footprint, delivering a valuable service to those people. Then they’re going to actually initially start spending more within those stores. Now I think there visible demographics and demographics are available now from the different types of companies that deliver, click and collect different types of companies they offer concession within within a store. They actually start showing you how you start increasing your footprint. And actually start showing how those footprint customers start spending more in stores and how those customers start and understand the demographics, whether it’s male females or children. So that’s gives a very powerful information to start giving more value to those people.

DAVID DUNGAY [00:06:11] Sure. Yeah Dan.

DAN CUNLIFFE [00:06:12] I just think know customer experience is important, not just in retail. I mean, we do we run businesses every day. We’ve got to make sure that the whole experience is important. But I think for in order to kind of drive the most amount of football footfall, it’s not as not only about the footfall coming in, I think it’s about going out as well to try and get those people to think about you in other ways. So you got this all sort of, I guess, pre during and post customer experience of that retail journey with all of that sort of retail buy. And there’s loads of technology that help you do that, you know, from connecting to people smartwatches and sending messages or to their phones or just when you come in sort of making that experience a bit more targeted, like remembering that, you know, Daniel coming last time and bought something really, really cool. But just remind him of why that was a good place to come in. Little things I got, I think, make the difference. So that’s why that experience definitely before during for sure, which they do already. But after as well, you know, these things are become important.

DAVID DUNGAY [00:07:07] So how does the online piece come into this experience? Yes. I mean, delivering the customer in-store is quite easy to understand how the online retailers can really, really combat this stuff.

DAN CUNLIFFE [00:07:18] Yeah, I think I think you see that it would be actually interesting to to understand how many high street retailers also have online and when they started and sort of get this graph of the dates and how they adjusted revenues. But the online experience is is effectively, you know, kind of what you’re getting on a tablet or on your phone or computer. But there’s nothing emotional really about that’s difficult to do. And I and I I think the way that they will get more of an emotional experience from online is maybe three things like augmented reality, for example, or a sort of virtual reality getting you right into the store from your own home and then kind of currating that that that that feeling. The problem with online is that you can go and find something that a at a at a shop that you like because of its high street capability. But then you can find it online and someone like Amazon or eBay or something like that again and totally devalue all that brand presence that they’ve tried to create. So. So the answers are very difficult, I suppose, but it does come to understanding what your customers want all the way through.

DAVID DUNGAY [00:08:17] Sure. We know we have a Twitter question. I’ll hold tight. Frankie Savvides, thank you very much for watching. Is voice seen as the major driver of retail moving forwards? Voice Interesting. They might be referring to sort of the Alexa Siri type voice. What do you think, Daniel?

DANIEL SCOTT [00:08:41] If it’s voice and not voice over the Internet. I think voice over the Internet is a very, very small part that’s being played currently over retail at the moment. If it’s voice using applications to order our products. Yes, it is. I think we also have to understand and make sure that we understand what our customers want. Before we make those decisions now, I think it’s very, very easy to get a shiny new product that people want to talk about with artificial intelligence and understand what they want to achieve. But sometimes it’s very I think sometimes when you go back a little bit to basics and understand what value we do for the customer to get into stores now that there’s certain applications and certain products that people start understanding what people are actually how they’re interacting how are they communicating? And there is different companies out there that use some forms of chatbots to understand what customers actually are asking for. Now, we work quite closely with certain companies to understand what customer sentiment are so they can understand what they want within stores and what locations they actually want those stores. Because a lot these a lot of these people now don’t want to go to far out shopping centres that are not out of their local vicinity. They want to go to one of the street shops where they can actually engage with people. So for me, it’s a lot more about, I think in this day and age, upskilling a staff, giving more value them again. Yes, they do have a part to play these AI IoT devices to interact and connect back to the store retailer. But at the moment, I still think it’s very quite shiny and  quite new.

DAVID DUNGAY [00:10:19] Would you trust Alexa to do your shopping via voice?

DAN CUNLIFFE [00:10:22] I was I was going to add that. I think I think it’s about like the value of the item or that kind of what that item is going to be? You know, if you kind of used as a passing comment, hey, Alexa, order me some more milk and bread. I Think that’s fine. I think that’s quite normal, you don’t expect to get some, but if you and if you if you’re sort of going to buy something a bit more expensive, some you actually put some effort into, you know, buy me the latest iMac. I don’t think it’s gonna be something you’ll do.

DAVID DUNGAY [00:10:46] Okay. So Twitter has fired up again from interesting news. Thank you very much for watching. Is e-commerce still a Google game? I assume this is an SEO type question. I don’t know if you guys have a view on SEO piece? I assume not.

DANIEL SCOTT [00:11:03] So so look, getting Google presence up there and your high in your rankings and working very closely with Google Analytics to get your presence really high on your e-commerce plate will certainly have a place. But I think we have to understand a lot of our consumers now with they’re intelligent people. They know what they want to go in and what they want to look after. They they buy value in products that they want to consume. It’s not just about being in the top five rankings of Google. So I think it has its place. But it’s a bit of everything I think is different solutions that all help. There’s not one solution that fits all.

DAVID DUNGAY [00:11:40] Okay. Let’s bring it back to the channel. Has the channel really jumped on the sort of new opportunities that we’ve spoken about here? And where where do you think’s a good place for the channel companies to concentrate their efforts?

DAN CUNLIFFE [00:11:54] Yeah, I think I think if we look at the retail side specifically, I know my customers have definitely gone into retailers with either a sort of cost auditing solution when it comes to kind of the basics on the coms or what they can do differently. But on the other side are kind of a footfall driving slightly more tech driven approach. So if I just kind of highlight those. So from a cost improvement or cost auditing perspective within retail, you know, you’ve got some pretty cool solutions in the IoT around building management solutions. Right. So you can prove the way that you use your energy. You can improve the way that you monitor the way that all your retailers are actually being judged in terms of why is electricity on at 4:00 in the morning, like there’s something going on and you allow the probably the the the bigger retail chains to understand their spend a lot better through IoT technology. I think I think that’s one way to do it in that kind of cost and auditing from a footfall driving perspective. It’s what I mentioned earlier about the sort of, you know, how do we create an experience which is pre during and post of getting the retailers into your store and the whole pre side, as you know. And I’m sure Dan will talk about later, but pop up stores, right. You know, moving the retail out from your shop to somewhere else where they are going to be a lot of people for a short period time, you know, why wouldn’t they? A retailer or a fast food chain or something interesting. Go and be more at a festival environment just to build more brand presence, because you’ve really because, you know, they are from before. So the solutions like that, where you can you can actually deliver an in-store experience, but outside. And I think that those sort of ways in which the channel has accepted it is quite easy because channel is very good at delivering comms. You know, sometimes at a basic level or kind of, you know, very, very simple ways in which they can improve the cost of the comms. But this is another way you can do it by analyzing the actual retail store to improve it as well.

DAVID DUNGAY [00:13:37] OK. Can you see me for a for a typical traditional channel partner might be selling broadband into retail is that is an insurmountable leap to go from that to selling all those other bits you’ve been talking about that sit around that.

DANIEL SCOTT [00:13:52] For me, no. I think you have to understand your market, your retailer. I think it’s very difficult to get into a Tier 1 and Tier 2 retailer if you have as a reseller have been historically just selling DSL services. I think you need to offer slightly different more products. Now, with that being said, Tier 2 retailers typically come retailers they’ve got somewhere between 50 and 200 sites. They have a huge proportion of hardware software items that are going on a day to day routine of keeping the lights on. Are they work in a running. Now, historically, with these retailers, their I.T. departments are very, very stretched, that they are under significant pressure to reduce cost wherever possible with IT managers and I think as a reseller, we can offer real value by going into them, taking a view and looking after their assets, certainly from a GDPR perspective. I think there’s also the benefit of looking after the hardware that maybe you’ve gone end of life now. We have historically loads of retailers in this country that haven’t been spending CapEx options on hardware yet. The routers they’re items that deliver their services back of house. And they’ve got historic items that are end of life that some of the big companies that look of these retailers just don’t want to support no more. So I think there’s a value for us understanding the assets they’ve got in store and support them. And that’s certainly what we’re seeing thorugh partners that use our software.

DAVID DUNGAY [00:15:22] Huge, huge opportunity.

DANIEL SCOTT [00:15:23] Yeah, I think so.

DAVID DUNGAY [00:15:24] Okay. Twitter’s fired up again. Clint Fletcher, thank you very much for watching. What’s now. Sorry this isn’t worded quite right. But what what are the influences formed the millennial Jason, the millennial generation now, let me get that right. Typical brand advertising is moving online. Question mark.

DAN CUNLIFFE [00:15:43] I’ll try and have a go. So what is it for the millennials in typical brand online, I think. Well, millennials are sort of are and quite a high percentage of our business today. And I guess what we’re getting out of the guys there is that they just want to be able to shop as quickly as possible and get the thing on demand. That’s really the main drivers. And unfortunately, the brand is is important when you get to a certain level to spend for them, but it’s sort of within a certain level. But how quickly can I get to the brand that I want? And I think from the online advertising perspective, that’s where am I supposed to Google SEO stuff comes in and being able to get to your millennial buyers quick as possible.

DAVID DUNGAY [00:16:24] Social media as well.

DAN CUNLIFFE [00:16:24] Correct. Right. So I’m looking for glass of water or whatever it is. Right. But it’s within that bracket where I don’t put too much attention to kind of the brand loyalty. But the one that gets to me first with the right price, I’ll take it that sort of on demand drive to that. That answers it right.

DAVID DUNGAY [00:16:37] Not bad you did quite well there. So Amazon Go. Are we familiar with the Amazon Go store? So this launched I think 18 months or so ago now in the US. It’s a bit of a concept store at the time using IoT technology. I mean, is this is this a sort of beacon of shining light for these brick and mortar stores of what the future will look like for them? What do you think of it?

DANIEL SCOTT [00:17:05] I think yea and no If I if I’m honest with you, I think there is going to be some people experimenting, trying frictionless shopping, the ability to go in the store, do facial recognition, understand who you are going into a store, pick up an item, and it’s certain there’s certain vendors that already deliver those products. Quite easy to consume to understand what you pick from shelf going to your basket in a store. Now, I don’t I don’t believe that that’s the be all and end all of if I’m honest. I think there is still the benefit of people actually want to start using local shopping, understanding and building value with someone certainly when you start going towards clothing and understanding what people wear and understand who the person is you’re buying that you’re selling it to what they wear. Now I think you can upskill and you can develop people more with that. The other advance with Amazon at the moment is people are the issue in the UK here. We have a distributed retailers. We’ve moved to a different site so they might have 100 sites now what they wish we perceived and what we’ve seen is people start doing different software applications to actually use our stores to be the distribution centres. So don’t have a centralized distribution that’s based in the Midlands. Actually, you use your local store to pick that item from store, pick from store there and deliver it to that customer within two hours, which is easily accessible. Amazon can’t do that in the UK at this present moment. They don’t have the wide range of stores in the high street. Now what we should be using is embrace that embrace the technology we’ve got to actually start delivering that.

DAVID DUNGAY [00:18:39] It’s not often you have, you know, strategies that one up Amazon is it. I mean, it’s great.

DANIEL SCOTT [00:18:44] It’s not a new thing. It’s people have been using it. There’s already retailers out there will be doing that at the moment. So I think it’s definitely valuable. It’s not a one to one one shop that does everything. I don’t think I think you’ve got to have a multifaceted approach depending on your your your public and who you actually transacting with.

DAVID DUNGAY [00:19:01] Mr. IoT.

DAN CUNLIFFE [00:19:03] Yeah. I mean, I had to look at the Amazon Go. There’s a really good video of a guy walks around it. And it’s all driven by sensors and cameras of from the top down trying to work out. The real positives are, you know, there’s no need for queuing in terms of cashiers or for anything like that’s going to go. Problem is, you actually queue outside to get in, which is really weird, right? So you’re still queuing somewhere to kind of get in.

DAVID DUNGAY [00:19:25] Not in the UK.

DAN CUNLIFFE [00:19:26] Not in the UK. It might be very very different. Yeah, but you know, all the kind of the positives are, get in without a problem. Your bag is essentially your wallet. Right. So you’re putting in things and you take them out and all kind of works it out. There are challenges which are which are occasionally the kind of exit doors aren’t opening because as isn’t calculated, everything. And these are very difficult things to solve no matter with what sensors you have. But I think that’s a step forward for what what can come of UK retail, learn from it. I’d say that there are elements that people want to be able to just go in buying and leave. And you almost got to think that the retail needs to invest in some sort of wallet capability, some sort of e-wallet capability that makes it simple whether you use your phone to scan it and move on. You know, these are there are there easier ways to do than to put loads of sensors around. The other bit that I think is, is that is probably kind of related to the Amazon side as I truly think that some of the larger retailers and I guess some of them that are franchised should use their their real estate for more sort of hybrid ideas. You know, click and collect is a very good one. Why not start to interweave things like Deliveroo to getting services out there quicker for all retailers available, why should Amazon be the only ones that can do that? Just to be fair, they’re kind of doing a similar model anyway. So why wouldn’t you use other last mile deliveries if we can quote our comms market, right. Why do you use last mile deliveries in logistics to make life a better place. It seems to me that retail can kind of work with those guys.

DAVID DUNGAY [00:20:52] So IoT is not necessarily the answer, but it might be part of it.

DAN CUNLIFFE [00:20:55] Well, you know, all of that needs to happen because you got to be able to track everything. You’ve got to be able to monitor where it’s going. You gonna go to give updates. You got to be able to connect it while it’s on route. All those things you need. You know, IoT isn’t just about sort of little bits. It’s a wider ecosystem.

DAVID DUNGAY [00:21:08] Okay. So if Twitter is fired up again, lots of interactions today which is good. Karen Williams, thank you very much for watching. Do we see automation of ordering being being a key player in disrupting branded goods in the future? What do we think?

DANIEL SCOTT [00:21:24] Not sure on that one to be fair, automation in what respect though?

DAVID DUNGAY [00:21:28] Automation of ordering being a key player in disrupting branded goods?

DANIEL SCOTT [00:21:32] I think there’s already forms of automatisation. So you may look at it we touch on Amazon. What we’ll be doing at the moment. What we’ve just been speaking about is Amazon at the moment. And they if you start hovering over a product or put a product within your basket, they understand what people are, how many other people in your local area are already hovering over that product and a forward track that hardware item to their nearest location. So they’re already understanding some sort of artificial intelligence or understanding your possible likelihood of actually ordering that product already. Now, the retailers, certainly the UK retailers that they are already delivering that as well now. So they really understand that the likelihood is I’m going to buy this suit, for example, from from a store locally to me that I now understand what how they can forwardly start stocking that form of suit there for us. It’s already there available I believe.

DAVID DUNGAY [00:22:26] Okay. So we’ve got our technology. Some people are using it. Some people may not be on the larger scale of the big stores then deploying things like IoT sensors, beacon technology, that kind of thing. What about the smaller independent retailers? How are they adapting? How are they going to get through this period of transformation, is this going to be a struggle? Wil we see lots of independents go under. What do we think?

DAN CUNLIFFE [00:22:52] I was just going to say, I think that there’s a couple of things up, the kind of smaller, I suppose more independent guys would see as a benefit to them. They should be able to really rely on geographic loyalty. I think a lot of everyone sort of knows who their local boots are and kind of getting in that place. I think if they are looking to embrace parts of the different technology that can help them, you know, there are ways in which you can go back to kind of old school, traditional kind of localized SMS options, you know, trying to remind people in your area about the things you’ve got going on and being able to work with your with your local comms dealer or reseller that’s probably a customer of of of someone in a market, you know, how do you bring the technology forward? You know, simple things like the sort of Fitbit for buildings product we got. It isn’t about having 100 retail stores. Doesn’t have to be that makes that world a bit easier. But you can get in sort of save yourself some money by using technology to drive down your own costs. In terms of driving footfall, why why couldn’t the smaller independent create a pop up shop? I don’t have what the what the big issues are, but they could right.

DANIEL SCOTT [00:23:56] I actually already see it happening. So what we find with the smaller retailers is they don’t have legacy networks. They don’t have what we find in the big retailers, is they it’s like an onion. They have a network on top of a network on top of the network. And it’s once you start looking at opinion back, it is just legacy network, legacy networks where people just added new connectivity. They aren’t sure what they got. They don’t turn it off with the smaller retailers. It’s like a fresh footprint. So they have the ability to install stuff within their stores in a new environment. So I actually, I think go a step had some of the old retailers. Now, what we’ve seen and we’re trying to embrace is a lot of the retailers that we’re working with are trying to embrace the forms of concessions so that they understand the concessions are bringing those customers into the store. But the ability to monetize those concessions to make sure that their connectivity is slightly less a cost. So, yeah, the ability to deliver a virtual application network so it can actually deliver the application across the existing Internet connection and locked down in a secure environment, that that’s given the ability for those retailers to actually not only just bring different concessions or pop up stores into their store to drive footfall, but also actually to monetize those concessions that come into the store to actually to make it a lot more accessible. They’re on comms and we speak to people daily about that.

DAN CUNLIFFE [00:25:16] Just as only with concession stores, because a lot of time, I guess a few years ago, it’s hard because some guy would go, can I put my concession in your store? How are you going to know if it’s worked or not? These days you can do more things about it, right? You can have certain sensors that you can have things like how long where people are standing in front of it. What do we get out of it, which is now really useful. This is, I guess, back then. So the risk is lower to attempt to concession as well.

DAVID DUNGAY [00:25:38] Okay. Well, this next question, we sort of already already touched on Compare The Cloud. Thank you for watching, does the rise of Ali Baba and Amazon prohibit the smaller players from entering the retail space well, without fresh footprint? Actually, you might give them a leg up, then.

DANIEL SCOTT [00:25:53] Yeah, I don’t think so. We have to be vigilant on Ali Baba and how strong it is across the Western world, often from a UK, the European option, we always have one eye probably perhaps more on Amazon than we do Ali Baba and they are a very big company that are very aggressive that will look to. I think I believe that will come into Europe next few years. But yeah, absolutely. The high street isn’t dead in my opinion, we if we deliver value and we deliver the right form of services and give that value to that customer, then definitely we can be very competitive.

DANIEL SCOTT [00:26:23] Well, if you sell out your stool, the high streets not dead, so Dan online versus high street. Is it a fair fight? Who is who’s going to win or actually is it not the right question?

DAN CUNLIFFE [00:26:35] Is that the right question? No I am kidding. I think it is. It’s one of those typical answers where you can say like it’s fair in some ways, not fair in other ways. But I think if you look at the online guys, what’s positive for them? You can see loads of products really, really quickly. You can go through a whole catalogue within minutes. Right. The challenge they have, though, is that they can be compared very, very, very quickly as well and can come down on reviews, experience and various other reasons that just don’t make them win. So how do they kind of combat that is they have to spend a lot more on their experience side of it and kind of make it useful and probably probably adopt technologies like your AR and your VR to bring that feeling of this is a quality product before it goes out. The guys who are more bricks and mortar or the sort of high street size, I think they’ve got a very interesting transition to go through, which is my piece of real estate. What else can it do for me? What else can my brand do for me? Where else can I go out and get people to engage? Using simple technologies like the Beacon Technologies, I can pull people in from all over the place. I can set up my own store somewhere else, you know, nearby to pull people towards me and equally try and try and get someone into my store who is interested in a completely different product. But by some chance, they’ll now learn about what I do. So we mentioned Costa in Next. You know that other coffee shops are available, of course. But, you know, that’s sort of hybrid of I want to go and get something completely different to what that shops actually offering me. I think that’s going to really become a far, far more important strategy in the future.

DAVID DUNGAY [00:28:05] So we’re almost at the end of the session. What would you like to impart on our audience today from our chat? Anything you’d like to highlight or just say goodbye on a on a on a on a particular point Daniel?

DANIEL SCOTT [00:28:20] For my point, I think it’s about being relevant with the customers that you work with from either channel partner or from a retailer. Now, we’ve tried to be relevant as a company by building integration into our platform for upstart integration from a retail perspective is about working with day to day products that retailers use, scanning devices, CCTV, WiFi technology, any form of technology that retailer would need to run the back of office in a day, a day to day basis. Now, if we can build that in and see the set of tolerances that we can bring into a platform and deliver value to that retailer for us perspective, it makes us a lot easier for our products to be consumed by the retailer. And I’ll really like to speak to anyone about that going forward.

DAN CUNLIFFE [00:29:12] I just feel like I’ve said you and me wanna be a partner, no I’m kidding. But he’s right. I think a lot of the stuff is not easy. Right. You know, we’ve been doing this for for four years, trying to build up a channel for the Internet of Things. And it’s not easy. And I think you need to have people that you can trust who’ve had a bit of a background in it, who will work with you to win more business, particularly in retail. There is actually massive opportunity because it’s going through a transition where there’s chaos, there’s every opportunity. And I think it’s the stuff that we spoke about today, the fact that you can sort of measure monitor more things, you can create pop up stores, you can use 4G to do clever things. That’s where these guys are going to focus. And if you’ve got retailers within your base already, consider that. That’s what I do.

DAVID DUNGAY [00:29:54] Well, thank you very much for joining me. And thank you very much for joining in. You can catch us again in two weeks. We’ll be back in studio. Stay tuned for updates. And my name is David Dungay. You’ve been watching Comms Business Live.