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Giant Healthy Innovators – S1 E3

Giant Healthy Innovators – S1 E3

[00:00:36] Hello and welcome to this week’s Giant Health Care Innovators Live TV show. My name is Barry Shrier and I’m the founder of Giant Health.

[00:00:45] As a reminder, we have a bold vision. Our view is that we can improve the health and the well-being of people around the world by promoting innovation in health care and supporting health tech entrepreneurs. So that’s what this show’s all about. My name again is Barry Shriram, the founder of the giant health event. And I have tonight with me for absolutely fabulous, passionate health care technology innovators. So what we’re going to do is we’re going to chat for about half an hour, an informal conversation. I’m going to ask you guys to introduce yourselves. Of course. Talk very briefly, please, about what you’re interested in, what your experiences are, what your current passions and activities are. Then we’re going to talk more broadly about health care technology issues in health care right now and what we’re doing to address some of those issues, to make the world a better place to advance health care, to relieve suffering and to improve lives. So thank you very much for joining us. And we’re glad to have you on board.

[00:01:39] So, everybody, Jeevana and Ethion, Frances and Sophie, thank you for joining us. Really, really glad to have you guys on board tonight. So really good to have you on the show. Thank you very much. I’m grateful.

[00:01:52] So we’re just going to go around the room. So, Dubina, if you don’t mind beginning, please, if you can introduce yourself very briefly just about a minute, please.

[00:02:00] Jovana Fortum, founder of 40 Medical in the business of making urine based diagnostics, Reliable Source at the moment, but certainly in routine medicine, about one point four. So four percent of the four percent of diagnostics.

[00:02:18] Yeah. And that twenty two point five percent of them are unreliable. So that’s that’s one in four. That’s why I got four from there. And with our device, we reduced that to about one point five.

[00:02:28] So testing, if you go to the doctor and they say you’ve got to go and get some tests, often these tests are not wonderful.

[00:02:34] Reliable. Yeah. So you’ve got over forty million people in the UK every year who won’t be diagnosed first time from there, and which means that they have to go back to the doctor. They might get antibiotics, they don’t need them. It’s not good for asthma crisis. Sure. And our work in this area, we need a mainstream sample for routine medicine. We make PCR midstream, which captures that, OK, we’re also working on a first rate device for early stage cancer tests. Wow.

[00:03:00] Let’s talk about that in more detail during the programme. Thank you very much. And your background very, very briefly, are you a doctor or are you a marketing person?

[00:03:07] I’m a marketing person, yeah. My brother is the doctor, the invented Pazzi of our first product because he kept saying women with the same problem. He thought it diagnosed well. So he looked into the issue and found that the specimens they provided were contaminated and he did something about it.

[00:03:21] Excellent. Well, thank you very much. The introduction. Looking forward to learning more about that. Yeah. So, Etheline, please.

[00:03:26] Yes, I saw it in BrewDog when I saw the invitation. So I’m the CEO and co-founder of Healthy Health, which is a Start-Up that is doing prevention prevention. So basically we are collecting data from any kind of sources, digital data on the phone. Right. And then we do the match statistical match with a lot of a big database of lot of diagnosis. Yeah, more than a million of people that have been follow up for twenty, twenty years. Wow. So we have a very good match so we can make like some very accurate evaluation of your risk. And basically that’s where the prevention comes, is that we have a good risk evaluation for your health. And from that we provide you with some recommendations to reduce your risk. Healthy health is the name of the health. And we’re about. Are you guys based? We are based in London. OK, yes. And as your venue was saying, I mean, there’s a lot of things to do in the prevention, in the diagnosis. And I think collecting the data like we do can is a huge source of data on top of what is normally used by the doctors. Sure. And we try to to to to get that.

[00:04:34] Yes. Excellent. Well, we must discuss it a little further during the conversation tonight. I’m sure the audience would love to learn more about this and especially the issue of data, which, of course, has been how do you say it dragged through the over the calls in the past couple of years? So keen to learn more about that. And what I’m sure are a lot of our listeners concerns about data protection or privacy or things like that.

[00:04:57] Privacy, I think, is a big point. But I think it’s also a big point to say that we all have some data collected from from our watches and so on. Yeah, yeah. But nobody cares. I mean, nobody cares. So, I mean, the idea is also make use of it. Yeah. It’s another way not to talk about GDPR, but to talk about the user.

[00:05:14] Understood. You know, good point. This thing always tells me I should stand up and breathe. And so if I do that, the programme, I don’t be scared. But anyhow, France is nice to see you. Yeah. Thanks very much for coming along.

[00:05:27] The welcome here and. I’m now about 30 years into a career in medical devices, and I’ve been lucky enough to spend the last five years working for a live core of Silicon Valley based company and bringing the products across to Europe. Satellite, of course, is alive for setting up a local limited and bring in Korea mobile, particularly to the NHS, which is embraced very well. It’s great to see Simon Stevens on the one show last week. Well, I don’t see that as a very simple device. Yes, you can use with your smartphone. And we’re also now pioneering artificial intelligence in the Apple Watch with our own band called Karelia Band. Right, where you can take electrocardiograms to medical grade and have it all interpreted on the watch. Ready, fabulous site visit. Love it and reduce costs.

[00:06:21] Yes. So in case any of our viewers aren’t clear exactly on the medical technology, what is electrocardiogram and why does one do that?

[00:06:31] Yes, so many people talk about their heart rate from their fitness trackers or even taking the pulse. And look, that’s interesting. But in order for a doctor to make a diagnosis of any condition that you may have, such as a cardiac arrhythmia, you would need an electrocardiogram, which is literally an electrical measurement of the heart muscle.

[00:06:51] OK, depolarising on each heartbeat. And from that, they can then make a diagnosis and prescribed medications and so on, if you need that right. And we provide that for the medical community from people smartwatches or smartphones. So distance and location become irrelevant to care because historically location has always been the thing. You go to the hospital. Absolutely. Go to the E.R.. Yes. Whatever it might be, primary care location. Now, much more of this stuff is being in the home at work, wherever you happen to be, so you can access health care, save time, save costs, save transportation delivery and outcomes.

[00:07:31] Speed things are. What a great story. Thank you. Yeah, excellent. Glad you guys are here. Yeah. And so, Sophie, please. Hello.

[00:07:37] Hi, Bostock. I’m a UK innovation leader, Big Health, which is a digital medicine company with a mission which is to bring millions back to good mental health. And we are doing that with behavioural medicine programmes, but I mean fully automated digital therapy, which is as effective as in-person therapy. Wow. This product is called Sleep, which is a digital sleep improvement programme. Sleepy, old, sleepy. Yes. And yeah, it’s it’s been tested in six randomised controlled trials. Lots of evidence showing that it helps to not only improve your sleep. Right. But also to improve your wellbeing. So anxiety, depression and your productivity. So lots of knock on benefits to improving sleep.

[00:08:20] Oh, fantastic. Use the phrase what was a digital behavioural therapy? Was that a phrase you used?

[00:08:25] Yes. Elaborate on that.

[00:08:27] So I guess our definition of digital medicine and there are a lot of definitions out Azure one of the things you might want to talk about is about using fully automated methods to deliver therapy. Right. So this is this is a psychological technique. So if you go to a sleep expert for advice about your insomnia. Right. We’ll teach you tools and techniques, self-help techniques. And we’re really using technology to automate the content of the interactions that you would have had of using data from things like wearable devices or just from sleep diaries to tailor that information to you. And that’s that’s where the technology comes in. It’s about is tailor OK.

[00:09:04] So it’s kind of a bit of a moving towards personalised medicine. Absolutely. Yeah. Fantastic. Oh, this is excellent.

[00:09:10] You guys so glad to hear about all these amazing innovations. And I’m sorry no one mentioned a cure for baldness or how to address the beer belly, but maybe we could develop things like that as well as all these perhaps more important technology innovations. So what you want to do is want to talk about some of the big issues in society, some of the big health care issues or the big challenges in health care. I’ve heard so far about diagnosis, obviously, and personalised medicine and things like that. So let’s go around, if that’s OK, and just talk about what would you view are some of the big issues? In the past, we’ve had things like diabetes come up, of course, and ageing is a big challenge for our society. And you’re welcome to nominate one which is true to your heart or one would you think would be good for all of us to share our views on. So, Giovana, please, anything prevent prevention eventually? Why?

[00:10:01] I mean, for the sake of argument, let’s say that’s no big deal at all. Well, if you prevent something happening, you don’t have to treat it OK.

[00:10:08] If you teach people how to look after themselves and show the family, the primary care physicians, how to prevent things getting worse. Right. So, for instance, in the case of our device, if you reduce it was certainly an antenatal setting. For instance, we reduce false positives by over 70 percent. So what’s a false positive close in case people will be? That will have a mixed growth, so essentially you’re asking a microbiologist if microbiology was a detective and they would look through a window. OK, we clean the window, we make sure they can see what they want to see. A mixed growth specimen will be a dirty window.

[00:10:45] So so a false positive might say, I have my urine tested and it says you’ve got it looks like there’s something I don’t, but there isn’t.

[00:10:53] Oh, OK. Yeah. So we reduce that in a recent trial in 1987 by 70 percent. So that means you’ve got women who know they’re OK, are not being given antibiotics they don’t need. Right. And certainly in a more routine setting, you know, it means your your if you know what’s wrong with them, you can prevent something getting worse. You don’t treat a utilitarian tract infection. Right. It can become chronic. It could potentially lead to bladder cancer, can lead to all sorts of things. So prevent it stop it from getting worse. Right. That’s a really important thing. And that’s, I think, what you do as well, isn’t it interesting.

[00:11:26] So, yeah. Yeah, it it’s prevention related you guys are doing. Yeah. I can only say like prevention is key as you say. Yeah.

[00:11:35] The point is that my dream would be to use all the data that is available on me to just like assess what my health is. Right. Sometimes we look at the movies like Star Trek and say, and you know exactly what you have from a device or whatever, the tricorder. Yeah, but just to say, OK, what if it could it could happen. And the fact is that the more we have like IoT, the more you have truckers’ data, digital data and we can cross relate this data. Right. The more we can have information on our life, not just like the ten minutes at the GP or like whatever exam, but to have like a full view of the way you behave, the way you are not going basis, rather than just when I feel unwell and go to my GP. Yeah, exactly. Then we can we can effectively see what what are your risk, what’s the situation. And as a person, you just also say, OK, why should I focus on what is a key element that I that I can kind of my risk. Right. We all have risk, of course. I mean by the age, as some some said earlier, I mean, yes, the risk are increasing, but I mean, there are some ways to correct all that. And everybody’s so different that we need to make something very specific. And that’s why I come from.

[00:12:43] Yeah, but that’s helpful. You mentioned the IoT. So as a reminder, maybe some of our viewers aren’t necessarily familiar with technology and jargon and things like that. So what is IoT and how does that relate?

[00:12:53] And in the world of health care, sure, this is a very good example of Iot, which is like a device that takes on measurements.

[00:13:00] OK, and what does that an acronym Iot Internet of Things. Exactly right. OK, you’re right. And sometimes we forget what are what are the things. Yeah, things is like a watch.

[00:13:14] Like the one you you have like is a normal device that your Egmont to to to measure some very specific things. OK, but the more, the more we move forward, the more this kind of normal things like watch are getting some data from you. Yes. Zero like this one about the heart rate and all around that very, very specific. But even like a normal phone, which is also a kind of a device you can register when you sleep because it’s the first thing you take and you take off at night. Yes. That you look at I mean, your steps where you leave and there’s plenty of things about your exercise and that can help in terms of actual diagnosis. In fact, from this kind of information, you can deduce a lot of things. Wow. A lot of things. And from this lot of things, there’s a lot to to describe your your behaviour, your behaviour. Yeah.

[00:14:08] And we just tell everyone how I’m spending too much time at the pub most evenings, anything like that.

[00:14:13] I’ll maybe maybe because of your, you know, accelerometer. Yeah exactly. But it’s just my pocket.

[00:14:25] Very interesting though. And Francis, what’s your experience? Do you have a kind of big, big health issue in mind?

[00:14:30] I think the big health issue that I perceive is, is the whole methods of embracing change and the risk, perceived risk and risk management. And what what I mean by that is that, you know, health care systems and pathways. Right. Standard operating procedures have grown up over the years, sometimes over decades, and they become established.

[00:14:51] This is the way to do things. We’ve got a Cochrane Report on it. We’ve got all the data behind it. Right. We’ve done this. We’ve ironed out all the kinks and we’ve got this perfect way of serving you OK as a patient. So it’s what it’s a it’s a textbook approach. It’s yeah. This is how we do things. And that’s repeatable. Right. And in a nice guidance reinforces these things and other things and to bring change and disrupt health care. Right. And so so people want to do is actually perceived to be somewhat attacking the system and think potentially dangerous. Right. Bringing new risks into the into the situation. They weren’t there before and I think. What we the challenge is how do we bring innovation and change whilst risking so looking the risk that we live with today, because in fact, what I find in my own life and in general, we tend to ignore the risks we’ve gotten used to. So before the seatbelt law, for example, people didn’t perceive the risk of flying through the windscreen. That’s a very good example. And then they get out of it. The DDoS brought in change and everybody’s kind of gotten used to that. Yes, I see bias. You saved my life once. So, wow, that’s a personal thing. Yeah, but I’m glad you’re here. Thank you. So am I. And this is what I’m talking about. Those kind of innovations like the seatbelt may sometimes be seen as an inconvenience. Sure. But it brings risks the situation and brings a new way of working. Yes. And I think that innovation and change are not always easy to do. No. Inside a system that doesn’t want to increase its risk profile. No. And it shouldn’t be conflict there. Very. Your local hospital is one of the most risky hospitals. They embrace change all the time. The risk they love risk. You go, I’m not going there. Absolutely right.

[00:16:42] So no, it’s a very good point. I find often I’m invited to whatever, you know, speak at events and talking about innovation in health care and health care, I think happily is quite conservative and the health care sector. And I always joke that, you know, I’m glad my GP doesn’t poke me with some widget she bought from a Start-Up yesterday. Maybe it’d be better if they did. But it has to be evidence based, doesn’t it? This is medicine. We’re not talking about wellness and we don’t know, do we? Maybe we would feel better if we arrange gemstones around our heads in the evening. But that’s not medicine. That’s not the science of of health care. Yeah. So there’s a there’s a how do you call it. There’s an intrinsic challenge there, isn’t there, between an industry which is cautious, evidence based, slow moving. Most clinicians that I know are happily conservative people, but tech innovation is taking risks, trying new stuff and things like that. Yeah.

[00:17:37] So some aspects or some aspects. Sure. Established medicine that are risky. There is no protocol for your collection. There is for blood, but they use the same diagnostic purpose. So again, there is no protocol collection of urine. Right. Gnostic purposes. Oh OK. Yeah there is blood. Oh OK.

[00:17:53] So there’s, there’s opportunity to improve the systems. Healthcare system itself has built a huge risk into the process of year and diagnostics.

[00:18:01] That’s very interesting. Yeah. Wow. And so, so tell us a little bit any big health care themes or issues in society that we ought to be concerning ourselves with?

[00:18:11] Well, I think trying to draw some of those ideas together from Francis in particular, in where we’re talking about use of data for prevention, I think some of the fear that comes from the establishment is that actually if we have all of this information, what do we do with it? You know, we have a responsibility to act if we are detecting that someone is unwell. And so then then we have the problem. We’ve got to provide we’ve got to provide access to treatment at scale. And of course, this is where technology can really step in in terms of scalability. Right. Um, but if there’s if there’s a bottleneck that people have to go through. Right. Traditional healthcare systems to access this this new technological innovation and that can slow things down. So I think the challenge is access to evidence based treatment at scale.

[00:19:02] OK, can you kind of unpack that just in case our our viewers aren’t familiar with the terminology? So to scale something in business or in tech industry terms, what does that mean?

[00:19:15] Oh, wow, grow a lot fast. I mean, if you take the issue that we are focussed on at the moment, just insomnia, insomnia probably affects at least one in five of the working population.

[00:19:28] You’re joking. No. Wow. And it’s more for patients insomnia. Yep. People with having trouble sleeping, persistent problems sleeping so well.

[00:19:37] And what are the impact if I have insomnia, what would be the the ramifications for me?

[00:19:42] So, I mean, you know, we’ve all had one or two bad night’s sleep, all experience feeling a bit low, irritable, unable to concentrate. Right. But when you have insomnia, obviously, that persists over months or even years. So those effects become amplified. And so it’s not just on your mood, but also insomnia can impact on your physical health. It disrupts your immune system. The impact on your long term health, uh, increased the risk of diabetes, cognitive decline.

[00:20:09] And my gosh, one in five. I don’t want to scare you. No, no, no. That’s all right. There are evidence based solutions available coming over the hill. Sorry. Yeah. To go. Yeah. If one in five people are suffering from this problem, then we sure do have a solution that scales.

[00:20:23] OK, so a social skills, meaning a solution that can be readily adopted or implemented a.

[00:20:29] Cross the gate across the city, preferably with economies of scale, and of course, that’s where technology comes in, right? You know, if you can very rapidly deliver the same interventions and millions at the same price as you can deliver it to thousands into a winner.

[00:20:43] So that means that you’re reducing the pharmaceutical need for intervention, which be a massive cost saving for the NHS as well, and a health care provider.

[00:20:54] Because why? Why is technology? Because if the technologies are intervening and helping you sleep, you’d have to go to the doctor and say, can have some sleepers, please. Right. Absolutely. So we’re trying to reduce the pressure on GPS who are absolutely bombarded with that’s fantastic help. And so it’s more about enabling self-help as well as reducing, as you say, the kind of risky, idiotic sleeping pills. And this is so interesting.

[00:21:17] I love having you guys in the conversation, honestly, that I’m learning a lot and it’s really, really interesting. So, again, for the sake of argument, let me just play the devil’s advocate, as they say. What’s wrong with me going to the GP and saying, look, I haven’t been able to sleep well. What’s wrong with her prescribing me some nice sleeping pills? Maybe I can share those pills with my friends in the evenings or you. No, joking aside, what’s wrong with the way things are right now or time and resource that could be used for someone who really needs it?

[00:21:42] OK. Anything that you prevent yourself nice is a very expensive system as well.

[00:21:46] Right? What you’re talking about is expensive for you because you have to take time off work to be sure it’s expensive for the system to provide that luxurious person to person contact. OK, and if you think about the billions of people living on this planet, most don’t have that privilege. We do in this country. So we say, oh, what’s wrong with it? Yeah, actually is very, very nice to have a welcome, warm person to talk to. Sure. But it’s very, very expensive and it isn’t really scalable. And if you’re talking about digital therapeutics, such as sleepier, which is proven to be as good as drugs, which would you rather have a digital therapy that you can tailor for yourself? Yeah, yeah. Or drugs that side effects and God knows what. Yeah. So I think it’s the future is mixed. There will be still, you know, the GP, I think a lot of tools like a lot of course, Kadeem Mobile. Coliban Right. They enable self care. Mm hmm. I don’t need the visits.

[00:22:44] I don’t need to be there all the time about that cultural change of being unable to look after their own house. We all know the health care system is is really buckling under the pressure right now because people aren’t investing in prevention in the way that they could do. So some of these tools are very much about changing the mindset of us. Right. I’m not going to talk about them, the patients. It’s about us taking responsibility for ourselves.

[00:23:10] Teach us how to do that. Yes. Agenda responsibility amongst us to do that for ourselves, because I think very much that there’s a default. I’ll go to the doctor. I’ll take this. I’ll take that. Yeah. And there is very little responsibility in individuals to help themselves and sort something out before they go to the doctor. Yes.

[00:23:29] What are the issues, though, in terms of technology and we’re learning on this show that it can save time, it can reduce costs, maybe reduce my like my my requirement to go visit my GP, maybe help with diagnosis, maybe even help with some kind of treatment and things like that. But at the other end of the spectrum are people saying, oh, but that’s cold, that’s awful. That’s technology. You know, I don’t want this to be controlling my life and I don’t want to wake up every morning and be told, oh, my gosh, you are thirteen point six, seven percent down on your average sleep for the past month. And that can make me happier or sleep better or whatever. So are there issues in technology relating to this, what you want to call it?

[00:24:10] The the impersonality in person is probably wrong. You go to the doctor, OK, but your early indication of something’s wrong.

[00:24:19] And as I mean, I’m not sort of massive on this really technology stuff, but presumably it will tell you if it’s serious enough for you to go to the doctor, say yes, you know, it’s an early indicator. Yeah. It’s not necessarily a final solution, but it’s not.

[00:24:33] It’s that diagnosis thing which can lead to the preventive thing.

[00:24:36] We want to, you know, put something digital into peezy to to make it so that, you know, eventually people can buy it over the counter. So they’ve got the UCI who will pay the results to them or the GP or whoever. And they go and they know they know what’s automatically.

[00:24:51] So tell us a little bit more about this, but very briefly, please, what are we looking at and what does it do?

[00:24:57] What are the issues here that comes with a of works with the standard team on this team? So that’s in here? Yeah. So did I get this in the mail with a white new candidate? Yeah. Yeah.

[00:25:07] In the states that the screening labs are buying them to send to patients, OK, to send back a song called Peezy. Yeah. And it what it does the first part of your stream of potential contaminants, natural slime bacteria of the skin right into the, into the tube of course, the next growth that I mentioned earlier.

[00:25:24] So if I go to the doctor and I we in a tube, it might not be.

[00:25:29] Analysis, it’ll go into a drawer and it might sit around in ambient temperature for a while and, you know, if it’s got the katanas in it, that will cause them AIX growth. OK, so they’re looking for midstream, which is in all the guidelines. But midstream. Midstream. OK, so normally have to pay a little bit and then collect it and then carry on. Oh OK. What a mess. What happens. And it’s very undignified and it’s inaccurate. Sure. So what this does the first 10, 12 years or so comes through the bottom here.

[00:25:57] That natural sponge expands and it pushes the midstream into the tube and then the excess comes out of here. So it’s it’s engineered to work between 10 and 40 miles a second. It won’t ever fly. OK, so you have dry patients, dry hands, dry toilet. Yes. And actually administering urine samples, people to get diagnosed.

[00:26:14] And is this new in the world of of urine and analysis has been on the market for about three years while we’re selling some NHS trust, the NHS supply chain.

[00:26:24] We are selling in the States. We’ve got incredible trial evidence coming through. The evidence takes a long time to get when you’ve got an innovation.

[00:26:32] I mean, people say, you know, you’ve been around a long time. Was that well, we’re gathering evidence. Sure. You know, which is good. Which is good, which is entirely Giovana.

[00:26:40] That’s really, really cool. Thank you for sharing that very well. And if we could hear a little more about the whole cardio scene, because I’m really intrigued. I saw this demonstrated on a phone and a professional clinician got in an argument with the person on stage. Well, that’s not a 12 lead. Something something. Sure. And so if you can just help us to understand, what is this doing? What what is it promising?

[00:27:01] Yeah. So we’ve built our house on science and evidence. And if you go to a dot com slash research, you’ll find probably links to somewhere close to 80 publications and of course, a lot of careers with SD-Wan. And we don’t claim to be a replacement for the 12 league. We we claim to be a single lead. So that’s one dimension where we’re measuring the electrical activity literally from this polarity. OK, and this particular one, if I take an EKG on my wrist. Right, it’s taking it through my thumb and my wrist. Oh, superb. And what this can do in terms of it looks like you’re still alive. Yes, surprisingly. Mm hmm. But what this can do is make an accurate recording that can be used for diagnosis of cardiac arrhythmias. Nice. So the most common one is atrial fibrillation. A one in four of us will have that in our lifetime.

[00:27:55] In layman’s terms, what are we looking at?

[00:27:58] We’re looking at is the regular pulse, but irregular pulses can be all sorts of things and talk about false positives. That’s a big deal here. And so with this, you know, if you have identified, it can be treated appropriately. If you’re over 65 with a few risk factors for stroke age, fibrillation can be a real killer neck. And stroke is a huge cost to native population strokes, about 50 percent of the serious ones. So if you can find it, treat it early. Yes, that can be a huge cost savings. So prevention. And I think the other the other thing for maybe younger people, people go to accident and emergency departments with symptoms of thumping in the chest. Sure. I’m dying. My God. What is it? Right. A racing heart. And like the heart’s pumping out, you know, all sorts of descriptions. Mm hmm. Um, and when they get there, it’s subsided. And then they can kind of repeat that pattern. And the data hasn’t been it hasn’t been being collected. Yeah. It’s like an electrical fault in the car. It needs to happen when it’s in the garage. Yes. The mechanic to see. Yeah, it’s a good analogy. And similarly with the heart, if it’s going into arrhythmias and then back out again to normal, back into arrhythmias, if you don’t document what is happening, the doctor can’t tell you if it’s a cardiac problem or if it’s maybe even just stress. Yeah, understood. And 80, 80 to 85 percent of people with symptoms have no cardiac problems. OK, but they don’t know that. And we’re publishing a study. Well, in fact, it’s not us. It’s Edinburgh and the NHS. The public is publishing a study later this year which shows people coming to any with that symptom. Yes. Which has subsided instead of doing a Axians. I know we are normal now, which is useless. Sure. That’s sending them home with Cardiff Mobile and same record it next time. Yes.

[00:29:47] Before the competence and they call it when it happens because it’s specific. And so in this home to Lapapo, things are better than a doctor’s visit. Yeah. Yep.

[00:29:55] No excellent, absolutely superb technology and really exciting to learn about it. Oh thank you. So, um, we’ve got a few more minutes just to wrap up. So very briefly, if you want to talk a little bit more very briefly about what you guys are doing. And we also like to ask our audience if you guys have any asks, as they say, are you looking for investors? Are you looking for trialist? Would you like lots of whatever surgeons around the world to be engaging with you?

[00:30:18] Are you wanting students to engage with, you know, what are you guys looking for? And how can our global community of everybody who’s passionate about health care, innovation support what the great work that you guys are? Doing so in just a minute or so to summarise, please, at the end.

[00:30:32] So, yeah, I mean, basically we’re working in that prevention space, as I said, and we are looking at a lot of medical conditions as I’m gathering all this data. So we have some big source of data. But if we can have some more sources of data, and I suppose the community would be like a great, great input. Good partners as well. Like here, like you. I mean, doing some objects, connected objects that provide even better data. I mean, we we underestimate the value of this data. Sure. Usually we say it’s like a gadget, but it’s not. I mean, the more and more it is as these kind of objects are on the market, the more they are very accurate as well. And yeah, I mean, we’re very happy to have some data, some fine instrument. We work with insurers and with employers because basically, I mean, they’re the ones purchasing for the system, for their employees or for the insurance industry. And and and it would be very happy to have some connexions as we are. Very good.

[00:31:32] Excellent stuff. Thank you very much. And Sophie, any final words?

[00:31:36] One cheeky plug, actually, particularly for any members of the community here in London, as we all are today. But the NHS is actually partnered with us to make sleepier available to the whole of London. In order to get hold of it, you have to go to a website w w w dot good hyphen thinking DR uk ok w w dot good hyphen thinking uk sleepout and you will be able to sign up CPI for free using your London postcode.

[00:32:09] Oh excellent. Oh thank you for sharing that. Please try it. Absolutely. Well great to have you guys on the show this evening. So Giovanna and Etienne and Frances and Sophie, thank you very much for joining us. Really, really glad to have you. I’ve learnt a lot. Really, really interesting. So thank you very much.

[00:32:27] Once again, my name is Barry Shrier. Of course, I’m the founder of Giant Health. This is the weekly health care innovators show. I hope you guys found this interesting and hope that you’ll join us in the future. Thank you.